Evidence IC and OOC difference.

[Sly]

So I'm seeing it a lot people taking SSes with F8 and making threats to report/snitch to cops IC.
In my opinion photos taken with a camera (without chatlogs) and chatlogs (only in case if it was recorded IC by RPing a recorder) should be counted as valid IC evidence.

I'd like your all's opinions regarding it and a answer from some one authorized to end this discussion for once and for all.

[VincentDrucci]

Indeed. I got kicked from sasf because an admin ssed me with a civ driving arround, he was spectating me. How is that possible to be IC evidences.

[Peksi]

Faction owners / leaders (Godfather) may factionkill anyone at any time for any reason.

[wtf]

You can also be kicked for an OOC reason.

[Sly]

You can also be kicked for an OOC reason.

that's not the point....
I am talking about when somebody reports you or snitches you.....it maybe case of one of your co-worker making complaint or one of your member giving away information of your family to FBI or Cops.

[wtf]

Reporting someone is all IC, isn't it?
Does it matter how the picture with proof is made?
It's about actually HAVING proof, not whether it's an SS or a picture.

I do know that LEO's prefer pictures instead of SSes, so no worries.

[Sly]

SSes are inteded for pure OOC reasons and imo it's pure MGing if its used in IC matters.
'Cameras' are there for a reason.

-- Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:05 pm --

There is no such camera flying 2 ft. behind your back which will record things without anyone knowing In Real life.

Screenshots may be counted valid if RPed as Discreet camera in the room or in clothes but only if it has been installed RPly before the situation. (i'm not sure about this one , some one authorized should confirm it all)

[Alex]

SSes are inteded for pure OOC reasons and imo it's pure MGing if its used in IC matters.
'Cameras' are there for a reason.

-- Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:05 pm --

There is no such camera flying 2 ft. behind your back which will record things without anyone knowing In Real life.

Screenshots may be counted valid if RPed as Discreet camera in the room or in clothes but only if it has been installed RPly before the situation. (i'm not sure about this one , some one authorized should confirm it all)

In deed, and this should only back up if you got a tape recorder tucked in to your pocket, but Legal factions have too much piss up their heads to take this in to action.

[Sean_Heatley]

SSes are inteded for pure OOC reasons and imo it's pure MGing if its used in IC matters.
'Cameras' are there for a reason.

-- Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:05 pm --

There is no such camera flying 2 ft. behind your back which will record things without anyone knowing In Real life.

Screenshots may be counted valid if RPed as Discreet camera in the room or in clothes but only if it has been installed RPly before the situation. (i'm not sure about this one , some one authorized should confirm it all)

In deed, and this should only back up if you got a tape recorder tucked in to your pocket, but Legal factions have too much piss up their heads to take this in to action.

m3d?

[Oak]

SSes are inteded for pure OOC reasons and imo it's pure MGing if its used in IC matters.
'Cameras' are there for a reason.

-- Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:05 pm --

There is no such camera flying 2 ft. behind your back which will record things without anyone knowing In Real life.

Screenshots may be counted valid if RPed as Discreet camera in the room or in clothes but only if it has been installed RPly before the situation. (i'm not sure about this one , some one authorized should confirm it all)

In deed, and this should only back up if you got a tape recorder tucked in to your pocket, but Legal factions have too much piss up their heads to take this in to action.

m3d?

My signature ((sorry for stealing it Ozzy))

[frankvg]

Or something like i'm RPing - My company and me are sometimes using shades with a secret-camera in it, to make IC Screenshots.
Well i think you can only use F8 IC in a scenario for example as said above.

[Carrone]

Agreed, using screenshots and posting them as IC pictures is mixing in my opinion. FBI could just go around, making screenshots instead of using a camera and get ''proof'' without the illegal factions having a chance of defending themselves, such as shooting the agent or taking his camera because he isn't actually holding one.

[Sly]

Agreed, using screenshots and posting them as IC pictures is mixing in my opinion. FBI could just go around, making screenshots instead of using a camera and get ''proof'' without the illegal factions having a chance of defending themselves, such as shooting the agent or taking his camera because he isn't actually holding one.

Trouble is not with FBI, They are just pro's and doing it right.
Trouble is snitches going to Law with SSes and some civilians posting SSes in an IC complaint of an LEO.

I think there should be rule like if you are going to put SS as proof you need to provide a SS as OOC proof of you actually RPing installation of a hidden camera.

[frankvg]

What about my scenario? That's not a real form, as we show we are taking pictures IC using the /me's. - /do's

Or something like i'm RPing - My company and me are sometimes using shades with a secret-camera in it, to make IC Screenshots.
Well i think you can only use F8 IC in a scenario for example as said above.

[Kjetil]

FOR SSes to be valid you need a recorder, nothing else works. About the secret camera, yes, it's possible, but you need to role play it. First of all, using a hidden camera, such as in a pen, is powergaming if you do not turn it on and of using /me. They usually have small capacity, low resolution and are really not that easy to hide and use.

When I had a guy infiltrating Stracci I gave him a hidden recorder in a lighter, nothing high tech. But for it to be valid he had to use /me to press a button underneath the lighter to turn it on and off.

Also, a chatlog without SSes are invalid in my opinion. Why? Because they can be tampered with.

[Carrone]

Agreed, using screenshots and posting them as IC pictures is mixing in my opinion. FBI could just go around, making screenshots instead of using a camera and get ''proof'' without the illegal factions having a chance of defending themselves, such as shooting the agent or taking his camera because he isn't actually holding one.

Trouble is not with FBI, They are just pro's and doing it right.
Trouble is snitches going to Law with SSes and some civilians posting SSes in an IC complaint of an LEO.

I think there should be rule like if you are going to put SS as proof you need to provide a SS as OOC proof of you actually RPing installation of a hidden camera.

Like I said ''FBI ->COULD<-'' I'm not saying that they are, I'm just saying how powergaming it is to do such a thing, as there's no reason for the person to respond to his actions, as it's invisible to the other player that he's taking screenshots. Anyone accepting screenshots as pictures without it being roleplayed should be punished for powergaming aswell. Sadly, this doesn't happen.

[Tony_Tagliano]

OOC is ooc and IC is IC.
SS IS OOC and Camera is IC.
Using SS'es for evidence for reporting a mafia or soemthing to the police or something is not valid evidence as its mixing.

when it comes to Rping recording a converstation, ss must be the only way as you need proof of the actual converstation otherwise it could sound like your powergaming.

so..
its pretty easy.
SS = OOC
Recording = SS is necessary for a valid proof of the actual converstation.
Camera = IC.

[Santino Tagliano]

its pretty easy.
SS = OOC
Recording = SS is necessary for a valid proof of the actual converstation.
Camera = IC.

[Sly]

OOC is ooc and IC is IC.
SS IS OOC and Camera is IC.
Using SS'es for evidence for reporting a mafia or soemthing to the police or something is not valid evidence as its mixing.

when it comes to Rping recording a converstation, ss must be the only way as you need proof of the actual converstation otherwise it could sound like your powergaming.

so..
its pretty easy.
SS = OOC
Recording = SS is necessary for a valid proof of the actual converstation.
Camera = IC.

So is what I said but I would appreciate if there is a rule against it.

[Tony_Tagliano]

OOC is ooc and IC is IC.
SS IS OOC and Camera is IC.
Using SS'es for evidence for reporting a mafia or soemthing to the police or something is not valid evidence as its mixing.

when it comes to Rping recording a converstation, ss must be the only way as you need proof of the actual converstation otherwise it could sound like your powergaming.

so..
its pretty easy.
SS = OOC
Recording = SS is necessary for a valid proof of the actual converstation.
Camera = IC.

So is what I said but I would appreciate if there is a rule against it.

It is, metagaming. If someone sends pd or anyone else a as which he uses as picture, proof and the other guy uses it as a real picture, then you have metagaming from both sides. So, the rule is there already. Just not not with clear text. Could edit the description with that as example aswell tho.

[Mickey_Capelli]

OOC is ooc and IC is IC.
SS IS OOC and Camera is IC.
Using SS'es for evidence for reporting a mafia or soemthing to the police or something is not valid evidence as its mixing.

when it comes to Rping recording a converstation, ss must be the only way as you need proof of the actual converstation otherwise it could sound like your powergaming.

so..
its pretty easy.
SS = OOC
Recording = SS is necessary for a valid proof of the actual converstation.
Camera = IC.

So is what I said but I would appreciate if there is a rule against it.

It is, metagaming. If someone sends pd or anyone else a as which he uses as picture, proof and the other guy uses it as a real picture, then you have metagaming from both sides. So, the rule is there already. Just not not with clear text. Could edit the description with that as example aswell tho.

About that mix ,haha here's a joke , sonny texas Buhahahahahhaha,

[Sly]

OOC is ooc and IC is IC.
SS IS OOC and Camera is IC.
Using SS'es for evidence for reporting a mafia or soemthing to the police or something is not valid evidence as its mixing.

when it comes to Rping recording a converstation, ss must be the only way as you need proof of the actual converstation otherwise it could sound like your powergaming.

so..
its pretty easy.
SS = OOC
Recording = SS is necessary for a valid proof of the actual converstation.
Camera = IC.

So is what I said but I would appreciate if there is a rule against it.

It is, metagaming. If someone sends pd or anyone else a as which he uses as picture, proof and the other guy uses it as a real picture, then you have metagaming from both sides. So, the rule is there already. Just not not with clear text. Could edit the description with that as example aswell tho.

Not just that but there should be stricter against it since 'F-leaders' are supposed 'NOT' to rulebreak. And every member who gets FKed for IC reason and suspects MG in it he should have right to forum report and ask for the evidence.

[K3]

If you report someone In Character, you must have In Character evidence. That can be obtained the following ways:
- Camera pictures
- Bugs planted on whoever (SS the chatlog)
- Witnesses
- Links to IC forum posts
You can ONLY use F8 pictures if you can provide a very good reason for why you used F8 and not a camera. If you can provide proof that you roleplayed F8 being a camera phone, or onboard cruisercam or something like that it can and will be accepted as IC evidence. End of discussion.

If you report someone Out of Character - use whatever evidence you have. Just don't go from an OOC report to an IC report.