(Preferably Management) What rules are meant to be followed to the line?

[Oak]

I had a bit of trouble coming up with a name. Essentially I've noticed that there are situations where rules state one thing, yet admin decisions don't match the same occasion. By pulling out the recent forum report archive I got two good examples of said situations:

Here are some examples of things not covered in the rules, but enforced on player reports:

• [+] Deathmatching

  It is expected of all players to use killing as a last resort when there is no other solution.

  • Here the reporting player was killed, despite the killer having a lot of solutions, one of those, being from PD, arresting him. He wasn't fighting back, he was trying not to die.

• [+] Powergaming

  Forcing roleplay on other players, i.e. not letting them respond to your actions, is also considered power-gaming. Players must at all times allow others to participate in roleplay.

  • Here the 'Stranger' simply uses a command, and then a keybind, not letting the other player actually interact. He could resist and eventually be defeated, or he could succeed, or he could've had the other guy nearby help him. In 1 second, with a command someone walked out of his car, walked into the pavement, forced someone else into a car and then got back into the car and drove away. Yet it was allowed, despite the rules stating you must give people a chanmce to respond

It's true that some exceptions are covered in the Clarifications portion, yet there are a lot of things that aren't covered there (including these two examples). This begs the question, what are all the exceptions (don't take this literally, but instead, a general approach), and what rules are strict and should be enforced as is?

Is it okay to actually kill without being last resort all the time? Is it okay to use commands / force rp upon others after all? I don't get it, and the rules contradict what admins dictate.

[T-Dog]

Admins dictate what they want, they cant even hold a united front. Each one is spewing their shit like they some sort of rcon fucking vigilante.

Even if you quote the rules back to them in certain scenarios you'll still get the outcome that they feel like it should be. Some use common sense to bend the rules and some bend to rules because of common sense.

I myself had a situation like this which was overruled by the same report resolving logic.

A few threads like this have already been posted for the public to voice their opinion but shit, at the end of the day its still gonna be the same, are they willing to listen to your shit or just resolve you.

[tisler]

Also this rule:

Using third-party applications such as Teamspeak, Steam, Discord, Skype or other such platforms to call for assistance or guide your friends is also considered metagaming/mixing. You may not use any third-party software to communicate in-character without consent from the management team. GOV, SAPD, SASF, NOOSE and subsidiary departments of the aforementioned agencies may use Teamspeak or Discord as their radio communication platform.

I see several people posting their reports with the video included where they can be seen clearly talking over a voice communication program, but nobody takes action on them, which basiaclly renders this rule useless. I'm definitely sure nobody is going to spy on someone using it, but come on, if he posts the video himself he's basically creating evidence also to work against him, then you can definitely apply the rule of mixing and punish him, since as me being an avid player for gunfights I can clearly say the advantage voice communication gives is immense. This brings me to the point if our official teamspeak channels are even allowed. (?)

[vin]

The problem is that the DM rule has both "you need a reason" and "only kill as a last resort".
Trying to jack someones car gives you a reason to kill them, but it's not necessarily a last resort but then again since you have a reason to kill him it's not DM.

[Bennyy]

The problem is that the DM rule has both "you need a reason" and "only kill as a last resort".
Trying to jack someones car gives you a reason to kill them, but it's not necessarily a last resort but then again since you have a reason to kill him it's not DM.

Twisted right?

I think the rule set needs rewritten. It's so ambiguous...

[TheCowboy]

Usually the administrator solving your report decides what's suitable taking the decision upon both the written ruleset and a personal evaluation of the situation occurred. This of course leaves place for a load of bias claims and various conflicts of interests, which unfortunately, are quite hard to prove.

I never myself had issues with reports as long as I provided consistent evidence to back myself up.

The report for DM you provided is quite reasonable, in my opinion, but as long as the 5 level of force are just an IC behavioral code rather than an OOC ruleset, any PD guy is therefor free to slaughter somebody like that to his discretion.
Yes, it's quite idiotic, If I were you I'd fpm Kelroy about it, he might provide a more detailed clarification about it.

[Fuzzy]

pd killing civilians because someone tried to take their car really nice.....i know they can but they shouldn't do it otherwise why are they police man to protect people not to kill them.

as for pg I remember once when I was robbing a biz together with some guys but I was waiting outside and checking for cops meanwhile gf starts I killed 1-2 cops/sasf and since i was low I hided.After some time police comes behind my back and tazes/cuff me(since they use keybind and u get instantly cuffed)I was rping with those sasf until my friends come to save me then this sasf guy use force get in while I was trying to rp despite the fact that there was a gf.I was on the roof of a store and he was on the street.Apparently it is allowed to do that while in gf so your friends won't be able to save you.#IMRPLOGIC

[Oak]

The problem is that the DM rule has both "you need a reason" and "only kill as a last resort".
Trying to jack someones car gives you a reason to kill them, but it's not necessarily a last resort but then again since you have a reason to kill him it's not DM.

Those aren't mutually exclusive. You may have a reason which leads you to have to stop someone. It doesn't mean that your only solution to do so is killing. Which is when the other portion of the rules comes in (at least, in my interpetation), and killing should only be the last resort, even if you do indeed have a reason for having to stop that person

Also this rule:

Using third-party applications such as Teamspeak, Steam, Discord, Skype or other such platforms to call for assistance or guide your friends is also considered metagaming/mixing. You may not use any third-party software to communicate in-character without consent from the management team. GOV, SAPD, SASF, NOOSE and subsidiary departments of the aforementioned agencies may use Teamspeak or Discord as their radio communication platform.

I see several people posting their reports with the video included where they can be seen clearly talking over a voice communication program, but nobody takes action on them, which basiaclly renders this rule useless. I'm definitely sure nobody is going to spy on someone using it, but come on, if he posts the video himself he's basically creating evidence also to work against him, then you can definitely apply the rule of mixing and punish him, since as me being an avid player for gunfights I can clearly say the advantage voice communication gives is immense. This brings me to the point if our official teamspeak channels are even allowed. (?)

A lot of people use TS/Skype without mixing, and we all know who used to do it during gunfights, especially asking for help OOC, but you can't really prove they're mixing unless they actually start giving directions during the video. Some do, and are ignored though.

I think the rule set needs rewritten. It's so ambiguous...

Which is why I'm here asking for an ammendment/clarification/explanation on what exactly is against the rules

please just gtfo Oak you're not even playing anymore

1 - I am. 2 - Even if I wasn't does that mean what I said isn't true? 3 - You're asking for a person to quit the server, you're technically advertising against playing the server, thus you really should be punished for those words. 4 - You're going off-topic. Don't do it again.

[C-Slo]

pd killing civilians because someone tried to take their car really nice.....i know they can but they shouldn't do it otherwise why are they police man to protect people not to kill them.

as for pg I remember once when I was robbing a biz together with some guys but I was waiting outside and checking for cops meanwhile gf starts I killed 1-2 cops/sasf and since i was low I hided.After some time police comes behind my back and tazes/cuff me(since they use keybind and u get instantly cuffed)I was rping with those sasf until my friends come to save me then this sasf guy use force get in while I was trying to rp despite the fact that there was a gf.I was on the roof of a store and he was on the street.Apparently it is allowed to do that while in gf so your friends won't be able to save you.#IMRPLOGIC

You're allowed to do that shit as a LEA and especially in a GF

[Oak]

pd killing civilians because someone tried to take their car really nice.....i know they can but they shouldn't do it otherwise why are they police man to protect people not to kill them.

as for pg I remember once when I was robbing a biz together with some guys but I was waiting outside and checking for cops meanwhile gf starts I killed 1-2 cops/sasf and since i was low I hided.After some time police comes behind my back and tazes/cuff me(since they use keybind and u get instantly cuffed)I was rping with those sasf until my friends come to save me then this sasf guy use force get in while I was trying to rp despite the fact that there was a gf.I was on the roof of a store and he was on the street.Apparently it is allowed to do that while in gf so your friends won't be able to save you.#IMRPLOGIC

You're allowed to do that shit as a LEA and especially in a GF

I am 100% sure that it used to be punisheable to do that (especially in gunfights), not to mention that it's pretty much what I pointed out in the Powergaming ruling example, you're forcing an action and doing it in a fraction of the time you'd be able to do it, thus it would be powergaming. The rules don't specify anything about PD being able to get without roleplaying/non-powergamey roleplay.

Hence the requirement for clarification.

[Cypress]

#2nd report. The whole taze, cuff and get without having to roleplay is crap, annoying and it's a great example of PG by not allowing others a chance to rp. Even in his situation he used a keybind to say he jumping on her after turning the engine on in the car. Surprisingly it's allowed.

[RoGuE]

In the 2nd report, It's clearly Powergaming. According to the ruleset, there must be a someone outside of the car who force the suspect inside. but I can not see anyone other than two illegal faction members. Worst part is that non-rp driving. LEA can use /get command during gun-fights and if the suspect refuse to role-play.

From Faction Rules

If a suspect is co-operating, and willing to RP, they must allow them to at least walk to the car. If the suspect doesn't co-operate, Law Enforcement Officers may force them in the car with /get - without having to RP. Furthermore, LEO's are allowed to /cuff & /get players in all hostile situations without having to write additional /me messages

From Server Rules

It is also considered powergaming to force players into a vehicle in high-speed, such as cops using /get while driving past a cuffed suspect with 100km/h.
Cops must park next to the suspect in order to use /get. There is no requirement that the driver must be outside of his vehicle, but there must be a someone outside of the car who force the suspect inside.
It is permitted to exit your vehicle as the driver and roleplay opening the doors and then forcing the suspect inside after roleplaying.

Simply /get'ing someone running away on foot is not allowed. You must /letgo the suspect so they can not run away in order to /get them.

In the first case, He should've inform Cruz that it was a miss-click. and those LEA members didn't apply 5 levels of force in that occasion. So, He can report them to their Commanders through an (OOC) IA report. but the admin's decision is right in my opinion since there is no proof of a missclick in that video. Missclick or not, He hijacked a Vortex and he had to face the consequences IC. But ''It is expected of all players to use killing as a last resort when there is no other solution.'', at least they should've try to communicate instead of killing him.

[Flamey]

Wtf who allowed you to use my report without credits

[Oak]

Wtf who allowed you to use my report without credits

It's linked mate, I didn't take credit for it. Actually interestingly enough I was about to use two reports from you, but I didn't want to appear biased so I had to seach for another.

[Oak]

Lool you dumb fool just looking at your first example shows how much you should jurt shut the fuck up, go look at the video and see that he shot back. Try to also examine the whole situation and see that we were in a huge gunfight.

Doesn't mean the motive given by the admin doesn't contradict the rules.

Mistake or not, you attempted to steal his vehicle IC = face the consquences IC

No action atken.

Whether he shot back after he was shot at or not is irrelevant because he was just defending himself after being shot at. It's based on whether or not he should even have been shot at in the first place. The consequences could be less severe than being shot at, as, like the rules state, not last resort.


(And regarding your little offtopic rant, if I was ignored, why did you read it? My guess is you didn't have me ignored and instead just tried to act like a baddass. Then again you may have had me blocked, but you still read it... partially. If you don't like me, then stop annoying me. Am I talking shit towards you?

Also, weren't you and your friends saying that 90 % of IM is retarded? Well, there's the 90% that hate me.)

[CruzTattaglia]

Tl;dr

I only read the first 4 sentences cuz someone linked it to me


Sent from my .. using Tapatalk

[Camorra]

I love you Oak, you ok the rest here is fucked deeply, everyone here even the admins (for explain Darien Enzo) starts to make their own rules, killing someone for stealing your car should not be DM, we are roleplay server and not deathmatch - if someone stole your car roleplay with PD (i doing it all the time) and tell them the plate..

People here doing minor shits and others makes it elephant.

You should realize that Oak is right.

[Ramy]

Deleted all unrelated comments.

[P4kit0]

Is this a discussion about Heavy RP vs Light RP?
Cause we know where IM is. It's a Liiiiiiiiiiiiiight RP.

Player base has expressed numerous times about how it prefers the RP balance to be like this.

And those particular situations are being analyzed out of IM's context.
For example, people kill whoever steals their cars because people also steal cars carelessly and not following any RP sense or procedure.
PD fast RPs arrests because the overall behavior of players in gunfights is non-rpish and use RP only to delay the situation by typing all actions stupidly slow. Not to mention that most of them simply call for OOC backup by untraceable means.

[Oak]

Is this a discussion about Heavy RP vs Light RP?
Cause we know where IM is. It's a Liiiiiiiiiiiiiight RP.

It's not. It's about the rules saying one thing , yet something different being enforced. If 50% play with A, and 50% play with B then something's wrong, and needs clarification.

You can argue that "x is better because..." or "y shouldn't happen because...", but the fact of the matter is that the rules exist, and when it comes to analyzing situations, rules contradict most rulings. So either the admin/player rulings are incorrect or the Rules need to be clarified/updated.

I don't care whichever it is, I'd just like to play on a game where I actually know that if I'm told I can't do "x" then others won't be doing it to me.

[wiz]

Tl;dr

I only read the first 4 sentences cuz someone linked it to me


Sent from my .. using Tapatalk

yes but you are very cool!

[Black Hunter]

It's light rp ..

[Oak]

It's light rp ..

I already replied to this.

[+] ReadMe

Is this a discussion about Heavy RP vs Light RP?
Cause we know where IM is. It's a Liiiiiiiiiiiiiight RP.

It's not. It's about the rules saying one thing , yet something different being enforced. If 50% play with A, and 50% play with B then something's wrong, and needs clarification.

You can argue that "x is better because..." or "y shouldn't happen because...", but the fact of the matter is that the rules exist, and when it comes to analyzing situations, rules contradict most rulings. So either the admin/player rulings are incorrect or the Rules need to be clarified/updated.

I don't care whichever it is, I'd just like to play on a game where I actually know that if I'm told I can't do "x" then others won't be doing it to me.

Edit: It doesn't even need to be regarding in-game stuff. There's an admit that suggests that saying

[+] Quote

end your life, kid

is completely fine. I won't point names, but it's not hard to find where I got this "idea" from. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see people being banned for saying that.

[Peksi]

Rules have been outdated for so long, there has been several complaints in the past and no one bothers to fix them.
These days admins just decide what is allowed and what is not without actually following the rules.
There has been several reports before identical to each others, but admins made different decisions on them simply because they thought its the right thing to do.

Either update the rules or start playing by the current rules that are set to avoid misunderstandings.

[Oak]

Getting real ridiculous now. Rule literally states one thing. I prove I followed that rule, admin jails me. Meanwhile the person that reported me breaks another rule. I also reported him for that, admin ignores. Makes sense.


Rules need to be rewritten / clarified or enforced. ´If what admins are saying are the rules, then write it and put it fucking here. On the other hand, if the rules that are in the Ruleset are correct, bloody kick out the fuckers breaking them.

Current State is bullshit.

[DR34M]

If there has been any misunderstandings, please private message admin that resloved report.

[Italy Mafia RP]

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